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Mitch: You're listening to "Who Cares About Men's Health," where we aim to give you some information, inspiration, and a different interpretation of your health. I'm Producer Mitch. Scot, Troy, and I are taking a little bit of a summer break. But in the meantime, we've put together some best-of episodes highlighting some of our very favorite moments over the past 145 episodes.

Now, Scot likes to call me a men's health convert, and there's something to that. I used to never talk openly about my health to anyone. It was almost a sort of moral failing to be sick or something uppity to worry about something like your diet. If it wasn't about something like muscle building, it really wasn't worth talking about. And that led me to think that being healthy was just something I wasn't ever going to be able to be.

But by just talking about my health and hearing stories of health from other men on this show, it's led to giving me the know-how and the inspiration to really make a lot of big positive changes in my health.

And I've become a big believer in our slogan, that with just a bit of information, inspiration, and maybe a healthier interpretation of health, us guys really can become a healthier version of ourselves.

That's not to get too mushy or preachy or anything. I've seen it in my own life, in the guys around me, and some of the listeners that we've had on the show. So, today, we're going to revisit a few of the conversations that we've had with people like you, the listeners.

Over the years of being producer and co-host on this show, I cannot tell you how excited I get when I get a little notification in our hello@thescoperadio.com inbox that a "Who Cares" listener has sent us an email. I love to see some of the health questions you guys are curious about and reading the personal stories that we've received.

It means so much to me to see that there are guys out there that are starting to care about their health or changing their relationship with their health along with us. And we're going to share a couple of those stories with you today.

To start with, we're going to go way back to the first year of the show. Scot had received two at-home genetic tests over the holidays, which back then seemed like the must-have gift for adults, right?

But after reading the fine print on his tests, he wasn't quite sure if he actually wanted to use either of them. He started to have questions. Were these tests reliable? What could the company do with his information? Would he actually want to know the results?

So we made it into an interactive giveaway. After a few weeks of exploring the ins and outs of genetic tests on the show and receiving submissions from listeners about their interest in genetic testing, listener Matt was drawn to be the winner of the test.

The catch? He and Scot would first speak with a genetics counselor about any concerns or questions they had first. And then on air, they would decide together if they would commit to spit in the tube and find out their genetics.

Here are some of the highlights of that conversation with Matt and genetic counselor Karin Dent on Episode 35, "At Home Genetic Test: Listen Before You Spit."

Scot S.: I do have a question. Have you ever read the terms of service for any of these direct-to-consumer genetics tests?

Matt: No. That I haven't done.

Scot S.: Okay. Neither had I. And when I did . . .

Matt: And now I'm a little bit nervous.

Scot S.: All right. So here is just an excerpt from one of them. "Once you obtain genetic information, the knowledge is irrevocable. You should not assume that any information we may be able to provide you, whether now or as genetic research advances, will be welcome or positive. You may learn information about yourself that you do not anticipate. This information may evoke strong emotions and has the potential to alter your life and worldview. You may discover things about yourself that trouble you and that you might not have the ability to control or change." Wow.

Troy: That's pretty deep. That's pretty heavy stuff there.

Scot S.: "These outcomes could have social, legal, or economic implications." What's your take on what I just read to you?

Matt: That's just pretty heavy. I mean, just through my own armchair research I guess, I've looked into the kind of things that it could possibly tell me. And yeah, I guess I just didn't really think about what that meant.

Scot S.: Yeah. I mean, I didn't either, right? I was in this journey as well. And I'm still kind of on the fence whether or not I'll do it.

Mitch: Karin, our genetic counselor, starts out by explaining the basics of genetic counseling, as well as some of the limitations of at-home genetics testing.

Karin: So, Matt, what we really think about is our goal as genetic counselors is really to help people understand the medical, familial, and psychosocial implications of genetic data and the contributions to their health.

And one of the reasons we want to meet with people ahead of time is to really review all of those things that Scot just talked to you about. Once you receive genetic testing results or genetic knowledge, it's not going to disappear. You won't ever forget it. It's always going to be there. You can't unknow something.

And it's important to think about your rights as a patient and consumer, which are you have the right to not know some information as well as the right to know some information.

So one of the things that genetic counselors try to do is meet with families or individuals before they pursue this type of testing to make sure they're fully informed about the limitations, the benefits, the risks associated with that testing. Does that make sense?

Matt: Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

Karin: Okay. Good. We're not trying to totally scare you.

Troy:It is scary to hear that.

Karin: We just want you to be informed. Do you have something specific in mind?

Matt: Again, the little research that I did, I discovered that you could maybe find out about Parkinson's disease, predisposition to obesity, or there are things I'm missing that maybe are more obvious, but those are just some of the ones that stick out to me that I remember reading about.

Karin: And that's great. I mean, those are complex conditions that . . . A lot of them are adult onset, so you're thinking about your own future, and are those things that could be passed on.

So some of the limitations of this type of testing is some of those conditions that you mentioned, like Parkinson's, I don't think you mentioned diabetes, but obesity, some of those have genetic and environmental contributions. And of course, this test is only going to look at some of the genetic contributions. We don't even know all of them, and there's no way that we could measure the environmental contributions to interpret your potential risk for those conditions. So it gives you an assessment, but it's not a real black-or-white answer to your potential to develop those conditions.

Scot S.: Do you find that when patients come in, they are under the impression that it is black and white, that this is an all-comprehensive test?

Karin: I think so. And I think that the companies sometimes do a little bit of that on purpose. I hope that's okay to say. Because they're marketing these tests as an idea to help you improve your own health, improve your own healthcare, manage your healthcare. And what they don't tell you necessarily are always the limitations of that.

So they can test all the genetic factors that we know currently are associated with bipolar disease, obesity, but there are probably many others that we don't know about.

Troy: And I guess that's been the hard thing for me too. It seems like the only news you can get from these genetic tests is bad news, because it either tells you, "Yes, you have this gene," but if it doesn't say you have that gene, it doesn't mean you're . . . I mean, this is a lot of double negatives here, but you still may be predisposed to that condition.

Karin: Exactly.

Troy: As you said, it's only identifying a small number of genetic markers for something that's very complex.

Karin: Right. But if you go into it knowing that there are limitations to this data, that this is not going to guide your healthcare plan, that this is something interesting . . . We do sometimes use the term recreational genomics. Some people object to that depending on the reasons that they're pursuing the testing.

Troy: Recreational genomics. I like it.

Karin: It doesn't apply for everyone, but if you go into it understanding that there are limitations to this, it can be fine to pursue.

But again, as Troy said, you don't want to stop doing regular healthcare screening. So, for example, if this came back and said, "Oh, you have a decreased risk for prostate cancer," we would still suggest you go to your physician and have your annual screenings for prostate cancer. I don't know how old you are, Matt, so that might be not on the screen yet.

Matt: Oh, sure. Yeah, I think I would definitely take a look at my current lifestyle and if there's anything that I can do to at least combat that, make sure that I'm using that information as best as I can to make sure that I'm at least staying ahead of that.

Mitch: So after an hour of counseling and discussion, it was time for Scot and Matt to decide if they were going to take the test. But first, Scot had a curveball question for Ms. Dent.

Scot S.: Ultimately, Karin, do you think taking this test is a good idea?

Karin: Oh, way to put me on the spot.

Troy: That's a loaded question.

Scot S.: And this is not a recommendation for or against. This is your opinion . . .

Karin: Right. And this is not . . .

Scot S.: . . . based on your expertise.

Karin: . . . representative of my profession. I personally don't think . . .

Troy: Here's the better . . . Can I ask you this first?

Karin: Oh, no. I already said it.

Troy: Have you taken the test?

Karin: No, and I won't.

Troy: There you go.

Scot S.:Why? Do you feel comfortable sharing that?

Karin: Sure. I personally don't see the utility in taking the test at this point in my lifetime. I think there are too many limitations in what they're testing for. I don't see any way that that would impact me health-wise. To me, I just don't think it's a very good idea.

Troy: I understand completely.

Karin: Okay. Good.

Troy: I don't want to take it.

Karin: That being said, my father is this huge genealogy guy and he's dying for us all to do these Ancestry tests. I have three sisters. And I'm very against it and it kind of breaks his heart a little bit. But I think he should take it from me that it's not a good idea.

Troy: That's interesting.

Mitch: So to spit or not to spit? What did the guys end up deciding?

Matt: I appreciate hearing all the opinions that have been brought on the table. I don't know. I just feel like I have given it a lot of thought, and I feel like I do understand that finding out this information, it's something I can't give back. But I feel like it's something that I actually do want to know for multiple reasons.

I actually am interested in my genealogy as well. That was a small thing that I had forgotten that actually can be revealed to me. But all the health stuff, I just feel like I want to know so that . . . I don't know. I know that there are limitations, but I feel like then I can maybe try and do something different and . . . I don't know.

My lifestyle is pretty straightforward and not that there would probably be a whole lot of changes, but I think maybe just going on into the future, years and decades down the road, just having that information might be helpful. But I can see how it would be scary too, but I think I'm ready.

Scot S.: Okay. It's definitely a personal decision.

Troy: It is. But I think Matt is about as informed a consumer as there has ever been in the history of this test.

Karin: I completely agree. I was nodding the whole time you were talking. I feel like you have examined all of the potential issues for this test, what it may reveal to you, what it may not. You understand that there are limitations.

You have thought clearly about what you're going to do with the information, who you are and aren't going to share it with, and you've also thought about what you would do should you receive something unanticipated and unexpected. And that's about as informed as you can be going into this.

Troy: Exactly.

Karin: So good for you, Matt.

Troy: That's great.

Scot S.: All right, Matt. Congratulations. We'll mail you the test.

Troy: Congratulations, Matt. Excited for you, man.

Scot S.: Which also now gives you additional time to consider, right? So that probably would be a good thing.

Where am I at? In my brain before this conversation, I was telling myself that I also understand the limitations and whatnot, and I think I'm the type of person that could get this information and go, "All right. Well, that's interesting," and then move forward. But you kept saying you just can't unknow it.

Troy: Yeah, you can't unknow it.

Karin: That's actually something that people don't always think about ahead of time. A lot of people will tell you, "If I just hadn't looked at this." And you will lose that option.

Troy: So you've had people tell you that?

Karin: Yes.

Troy: So you have definitely seen people with regret and wish they had not seen it.

Karin: Yes.

Scot S.: Have you seen people that were happy they did it?

Karin: Yes. But those are people that haven't received results that could potentially be life changing.

Scot S.:Well, sure.

Troy: Bad news. Yeah, you can't unknow it.

Karin: I've also seen people who, again, don't understand the limitations of it. I mean, I've seen people that said, "Oh, it told me I have Jewish ancestry, so that's wrong." So people don't always understand that that's probably not wrong.

Troy: Right. Interesting.

Scot S.: I'm not going to do it.

Troy: You're not going to do it?

Scot S.: As of right now, I'm not going to do it.

Troy: Wow. So do we have to do this contest all over again?

Scot S.: Yeah. Maybe I have to find somebody else to give this second test to.

Troy: Wow. So you just made that decision based on this discussion?

Scot S.: I just made that decision.

Troy:Interesting.

Karin: Well, let me add one thing.

Troy: Like I said, I fully support you. From the start, I have not wanted to do it.

Karin: I would support you either way. One thing that is very important about your genetics is they don't change. So if you don't want to do the test today, but you want to in five years, that's fine too. You are not missing an opportunity to find out information only available today.

Mitch: Up next, we're going to move to a story that, no joke, when I first read the message, I thought it was fake. Really. I thought that Scot, my co-host, had drafted the most perfect listener email, exactly the type of story that we are looking for. It really sounded similar to something that I was going through, but he had forgotten to come up with a good alias. But surprise, it was a real email.

Listener Scot is a guy in his mid-30s in decent health. He's relatively active, he eats pretty well, but there were a few health things that he described as a little off. A little overweight, blood pressure was a little high, he had a knee that got a little sore sometimes, and things like that.

He wanted to be healthier, but when a doctor told him not to worry about it, he was healthy enough, Scot decided to reach out to us and see if we could brainstorm some steps that he could take to improve his nutrition and activity.

So we had listener Scot on the show discuss his concerns about his health with the "Who Cares" guys and everyone's favorite nutritionist, Thunder Jalili, all on Episode 82, "Almost There But Not Quite: Listener Scot's Story."

Scot S.: Hey, Troy, do you want to give the synopsis à la medical style like you would?

Troy: That's right. This is like residents when they see a patient and then they come and present to me. I would basically present Scot's case as a male in his mid-30s. He has a BMI of 26.6, which is a little overweight, with a BMI of 25 being that overweight category. Reports a blood pressure of 128 over 75, which that top number may be a little on the high side by NIH standards. It's a little bit above 120, so maybe a little bit elevated. He sounds like he exercises fairly regularly, runs a 5k once or twice a week. He bikes. He says he can do five pull-ups.

Scot S.: That's pretty impressive actually. Maybe we spend the rest of the episode talking about that.

Troy: Seriously. Yeah, five pull-ups.

Mitch: When I first read the email, I'm like, "Scot, it is the same story with me." Even down to the little bit of BMI, the running, whatever. But when it said five pull-ups, I'm like, "That's not me."

Troy: That's right. But Mitch, similar to you, he does report some knee pain if he tries to run a little bit farther than 7k. So I know you've had some knee pain. You've had some ankle issues as well.

Well, Scot, I think the first question is for you. Was there something that prompted you to really say, "Hey, this is all right, but I want things to be better"? What was it that made you think this and start asking these questions?

Scot: I guess it's just kind of been over 10 to 15 years of adult life nothing has really changed. My weight has stayed at about 180. Sometimes it goes down a little, sometimes it goes up a little, but it kind of tends towards the mean.

Some thoughts of like, "I'm getting older, and if I could get this under control now, it might make life easier in the future instead of trying to be 55 or 60 and like, 'Oh, no, retirement is coming up and I'm going to be on the beach every day. I'd better start working on that.'" I don't think it would work. So it was really just a "nothing really seems to be working."

I guess I should state that as far as diets and exercise and stuff goes, I haven't tried anything extreme. So I haven't tried any of the "cut out all of the carbs" or "cut out all of the meat" or "only eat smoothies." I haven't done any crazy exercise regimes just because . . . It's important, but I don't want it to become my personality.

Mitch: After discussing a bit about listener Scot's history and getting the lowdown on his current nutrition and activity levels, Thunder had some words of encouragement and a couple of ideas of how Scot could tackle his concerns.

Thunder: Before we get into it, just as a little encouragement, it sounds like you eat fairly well. You try to exercise. You're really not that overweight. So don't get too down on yourself, right?

Now, having said that, a couple of things that I would think about if I were you. One is maybe some different kinds of exercise. It doesn't necessarily have to take more time out of your day, but it could be perhaps more efficient and maybe more targeted towards building strength and burning calories.

If you have any interest at all in ever going to a gym, and some people don't and that's totally fine, it'd be a great idea to hire a personal trainer for a couple of sessions.

They're really good about giving you ideas of what kind of exercises to do, how to use certain machinery, and just doing things that are maybe different, instead of just going to the gym like most guys and bench pressing and doing arm curls or something. But resistance exercise actually is good for your whole body. So that's one thought.

If you don't like that, then there are other ways to incorporate more exercise into what you do. Recognizing your knee limitation, I don't know if you can kind of run more than twice a week, but that would be one option. Biking is actually a great alternative to that because, obviously, it's low impact, and it can take about the same amount of time as running.

The way human beings are built . . . you look at the human being of 10,000 years ago, even 5,000 years ago, even now, primitive cultures, they spend a lot of physical activity, a lot of calorie expenditure, in the effort to procure and prepare food. That may take hours, right? And so they don't exercise per se, but just the act of getting food is a tremendous amount of exercise.

Now you fast forward to a modern society where we don't have to do that, we can just go to a store or go to a restaurant, and we're just handed something, we cut out all that other stuff.

So when you try to incorporate exercise kind of in the modern sense, you've got to try to make up a little bit for all that lost calorie expenditure that we had in the past that we don't have to do anymore.

So having said that, probably you want to shoot for more than that 90 minutes or 2 hours a week. If you don't, it's just going to be harder to maintain your body weight.

Scot S.: What's the number you're looking at, 210? Is it 30 minutes a day?

Thunder: Yeah, I would say 30 minutes a day is what I would recommend kind of at just the baseline. And it doesn't have to be every day. You could take a couple of days off and maybe do an hour five days a week, something like that. But the reality is you have to just have a little bit more of that activity in there, because we're just not built to maintain body weight on just a little bit of activity.

Mitch: And Dr. Troy Madsen, the MD in the room, had some unexpected, but still valid and still good, advice.

Troy: Scot, I'm going to give the quote that I know everyone loves. This is the Matthew McConaughey rule. I've quoted Matthew McConaughey before. His rule of thumb, which I love, is he says just do something every day that makes you sweat.

Obviously, I'm sure he has a personal trainer and all kinds of other things, but there's something to be said for that, about not worrying about metrics and pulse and this and that. I think if you can do something every day for 30 minutes, whether it's biking or running or a vigorous walk, or maybe it's, like Thunder said, doing some resistance training.

Maybe you don't like going to the gym, so maybe there's a way you can stand and do just some free weights or something while you're working. I think anything you can do just once a day, incorporating it to get your heart rate up a bit, I think that makes a huge difference.

Mitch: So, after brainstorming with a nutritionist, a doctor, and a couple of everyday guys, did we give listener Scot what he was looking for?

Scot S.: What's your honest opinion of it, Scot? Do you just kind of feel like it's more of the same, or do you feel like, "Oh, these are dumb. These things won't work. They're too easy"? Where are you at?

Scot: I was expecting a little bit more of a cheerleader type thing of, "Yeah, you can totally do it," whereas I feel like we've touched several times about, "Yeah, you should just be chill. You should be happy for where you're at right now."

But it is nice to sit here and talk and have people say, "Hey, when you get up from your chair while you're working, if you just do some push-ups, grab some weights, do something, get your heart rate up for a couple of minutes, you might actually see some changes." That is something that I have not really tried, and so I'm excited to try that out.

Scot S.: Now, I've been taking notes so I'm prepared to give a summary, but I want to ask you what you think your steps forward might be, keeping in mind that it doesn't need to be a wholesale change. It's just those small little things. Are there a couple of small things you think you could do now consistently that you heard today? What do you think?

Scot: I think that some of the low-hanging fruit would be having some sort of weights, some sort of resistance training, that when I stand up periodically, do something. I mean, there's bodyweight training like push-ups and sit-ups, whatever. So I think that that's something that I could definitely do.

Maybe eating a little bit less. I am planning on contacting a dietitian. That seems like something that I would be able to do pretty easily. It wouldn't require much face-to-face stuff, or only once or twice, versus a personal trainer-type situation.

But I am very interested in getting a personal trainer. I think that if I tried to get more minutes of exercise in the week, and then go and meet with a personal trainer once a week for a month, and then see where I can go from there.

I feel like there are a lot of directions to go and I feel like this has been a very helpful conversation, I guess, to wrap it all up.

Scot S.: And you don't feel overwhelmed right now?

Scot: Oh, yeah, definitely.

Troy: Well, let me just wrap it up then, Scot, because I think the big point I want you to understand is you're doing great. I mean, that's the bottom line. You really are doing well. Your numbers are, it sounds like, just a little bit off. Certainly, give yourself credit for everything you've done.

Again, it sounds like you've got some very specific things you can do. I think it's important to implement those things. Give it a month. Commit, give it a month, and then reevaluate. But it sounds like you're on the right track.

Mitch: We actually checked back in with Scot about six weeks later to see how he was doing with the small health tweaks that we suggested and see if he was seeing any results. If you'd like to hear more about that and his experience with a nutritionist, you can check out Episode 89, "Checking in with Listener Scot."

Now, our last listener was a bit of a different story. Listener Neil had reached out initially to us with a question about sleep apnea. But the story he included in his email really piqued our interest.

He had a long history of being healthy and watching what he ate, getting at least two hours of exercise a day, which is a lot. But as he started getting older and started aging towards 50, he started to see an increase in body fat and just wasn't feeling right.

So what did he do? Like a lot of guys, myself included, he did what seems like the manly approach. He pushed himself even harder. And when that ultimately didn't work, he started to do some research online and he stumbled upon our little podcast.

Neil started adopting some of the advice that we have on the Core Four and taking a more sustainable approach to his health. And you know what? He actually started seeing positive results.

He was able to naturally increase his testosterone, he lost almost 20 pounds, and he actually started to see improvements in his sleep apnea, all through taking a little different approach to his health.

On Episode 126, "Balance is the Key with Listener Neil," we discussed his turning point and what he has learned about taking a new approach to his own health, starting with how he used to feel like a walking, talking testosterone ad.

Neil: So what I noticed was, and I think I wrote this to you guys, I felt like I was living the bad commercial that I think all men hate. "Your testosterone is low, you're gaining belly fat, you're agitated, and you can't concentrate."

Scot S.: You don't want to be that guy, do you?

Neil: No. None of us want to be that guy. And as I approached 50, I thought to myself, "I've got to do something different. I'm pushing myself so hard." And so I started doing research, and what I realized is that the stress workouts that I was doing were causing what I believe to be a major increase in cortisol.

And so I learned from one of your previous guests that the only way to naturally raise testosterone was to lift weights. I had stopped lifting weights because I was taught lifting weights makes you gain weight, and I wanted to lose weight. So I had the completely wrong concepts on what I was trying to accomplish.

Troy: Okay. But you were doing quite a bit of CrossFit though, you said, so I imagine you were getting some resistance training there.

Neil: Yes, some there. But what I learned from CrossFit is you would do the resistance training and then you would go and do the AMRAP or the EMOM or whatever the next part of it was. And for me, I don't know, maybe I pushed too hard, but I would be completely thrashed by the time it was over and I would feel awful. I'd crash on the ground.

Then what I noticed is I was falling into the trend of overeating afterwards, and that's when I started realizing I needed to make a change.

Troy: And was there one thing specifically? You mentioned you noticed increased belly fat, increased weight rather than losing weight. Was there one specific moment? Was it your testosterone check that really triggered this reassessment, or was it more of a process as you just noticed things were going the wrong direction?

Neil: I think it was more of a process. And actually, I was talking to my doctor, who's my best friend, but I don't go and see him, and we were just BSing at a bar having a beer and dinner together.

Scot S.: That's my kind of doctor visit. That's good.

Neil: Right? And I said to him, "Man, I'm doing all these events," and I told him what was going on. And he said, "There's a lot of evidence that that can actually do the reverse." I didn't really follow up with him, but I decided to do some research on my own.

Troy: And it sounds like realistically you were doing at least, just from what I heard, two to three hours of pretty high-intensity exercise every day.

Neil: Yes.

Mitch: Wow.

Troy: Yeah. That's a lot.

Scot S.: Yeah. It could be super frustrating too, I bet. You're exercising, you're eating what you think is healthy, and you're putting on body fat. That must have been really super frustrating.

Troy: But I think it's not at all uncommon. We always think if we're not getting results, you've got to do more of it. It makes sense, I think, for most of us to say, "Well, if I'm not losing weight exercising two hours a day, I should probably exercise three hours a day."

Mitch: And not just that. I mean, I'm really empathetic and resonating with the story, even though I think I come from a very different background. It's just this idea that whenever I was struggling with either my weight or feeling healthy enough or liking how I looked in the mirror or whatever, the thing that I tried to do was work harder, right? "I'm not lifting heavy enough" or "I'm not doing the right program" or whatever.

I'd find something on Reddit and I'd commit to it for a week or two. I'd choke down 12 giant chicken breasts every couple of days or whatever, and I just felt like garbage. I felt tired. I didn't see any real results.

It's so interesting to hear that someone who was very active and who was doing these other things was kind of experiencing the same thing. If you are pushing yourself far too much, it's not going to get . . . I mean, it's not sustainable. It's not good for your body.

Scot S.: It's counterproductive.

Mitch: Yeah.

Scot: So where did you get your ideas about fitness? What brought you to be doing three hours of exercise a day and eating paleo? Where did these ideas come from?

Neil: Yeah, that's a good question. I'm not totally sure. I played sports in high school and in college, and I think it just came from media. I just thought that's what you're supposed to do.

And the American way is . . . which I love America, I don't mean to sound negative, but it's "push harder," right? Everything is "push harder, push harder, push harder." So that's what I did.

And I've taken more of a . . . Well, I've adopted your four pillars of health and I meditate now and just do some things quite a bit different.

Mitch: We talk a lot on the show about a philosophy we call the Core Four, which is our way of making health simple, saying that there are four things that you can really focus on to get the most out of your health and see the most benefits: nutrition, activity, sleep, and mental health.

Now, for listener Neil, before changing things up, he had focused a lot of his efforts towards activity and nutrition. I think there are a lot of us out there that are the same way. But by thinking about the other two Core Four as well, and taking a little bit more of a holistic approach to his health, what sorts of benefits did he experience?

Neil: Well, if you remember, Scot, I originally emailed you about sleep apnea. I was diagnosed with moderate sleep apnea. My doctor friend recommended a CPAP. I don't really want to do that, so I'm still working on it. But I do know that I've lost about 16, 18 pounds doing what I'm doing, and I have been sleeping way better, and my girlfriend says I do not seem to have apnea like I did when I was heavier. So that's good.

And I meditate every day in the morning, and I do a gratitude/grateful journal every night. And it's funny because I started the grateful journal literally the same week you guys did your show, and I was like, "Oh, these guys are . . . I'm their number one fan."

Scot S.: It didn’t freak you out a little bit, like, "Where's the camera, guys?"

Neil: It did freak me out actually. And actually, some of Mitch's stories freaked me out too because I was like, "Man, yeah, I know what he's talking about there."

Troy: Wow.

Neil: And so, anyway, that's really helped. I really feel very healthy. I feel better now at 50 than I did at 45 when I was doing all that stuff.

Scot S.: As you started focusing more on your emotional health, how have things in your life changed? How has that aspect of your health changed?

Neil: I definitely have the ability to stay in the moment better. With modern society and phones buzzing every second and computers beeping every other second, the ability to kind of just stay in the moment and concentrate has definitely improved through the meditation. I really enjoy that.

I also feel more at peace. I did share with you guys I'm working on being agitated. My job is somewhat of an agitating job, being a lawyer.

Scot S.: Yeah. As they all are, really.

Neil: Yeah. But I still feel a little bit better at it, so I'm working on it. But I do feel definitely more at peace. And for me, it's a better connection with my family, because when I'm with them, I'm present, which is nice.

Scot S.: Wrapping up here, what have you learned from this journey that you have gone on, this transformation? What have you learned from this experience?

Neil: If I can steal from Troy, I think balance. I was way out of balance. I was over-fit to the . . . Actually, I didn't even share this with you guys, but to the point where I had an EKG that was kind of wonky and they said, "Oh, you've got a runner's heart." And it was really . . .

Scot S.: Wow.

Neil: Yeah, it was really odd circumstance. Anyway, what I've learned is just balance. My eating is better. I have some discipline as part of my eating. I have some discipline as part of my working out. I have some discipline as part of my meditation and my sleep. But I'm not over-the-top disciplined like I was before, where if I ate a piece of pizza and fell off my paleo diet, I needed to go run 10 miles. So I just feel great. It's all about balance. That's what I learned.

Scot S.: And enjoying life, right? A piece of pizza has never derailed somebody's health, right?

Mitch: Right.

Scot S.: It's when that piece of pizza gets together with 18 of its friends every week, then you've got a problem.

Neil: Yes.

Troy: That's right.

Neil: Well, I've reintroduced pasta into my life and I love it. I just don't do it a lot. That's all.

Scot S.: Right? And I would contend that's just as much of a mental health thing as anything else. You've got to enjoy life. Why are we doing all these health things to these extremes at the expense of enjoying our lives?

Neil: Yeah, it's been great for me because I actually have more time to do other things that I want to do, like spend time with my family. So that's been great.

Mitch: So what's next for listener Neil?

Neil: I'll tell you I probably will do another mud run because I'm curious to see if I can still go as fast as I used to. And I have a feeling I can. In fact, I think I can go even faster because I think I'm a lot healthier, and that's what's exciting to me.

Mitch: Now, that was just a few of our listener episodes. I know that they are some of my absolute favorite episodes. And if you liked anything that you heard today and want to hear more of it, a list of the episodes featured today is in the show notes.

And maybe, just maybe, hearing some stories from other listeners out there may just inspire you enough to reach out with your own health story or question. You should know that it would make my day. And who knows? Maybe you'll be asked to join us on a future episode.

As always, you can get in contact with us via email for anything at hello@thescoperadio.com.

Thanks for listening, and thanks for caring about men's health.